When the alpha-bat mentioned it the other day, I'd heard the story about some guy in La who popped the idea as a stunt...kind of a "stick in the eye" toward the election results that he didn't like.
I laughed it off because the only other time I'd read something like that was on a lib's blog when he suggested partitioning the USA and creating "Liberal land" on the west coast...which I laughed at due to the fact that "liberal land" could never possibly pay for itsself and it's ideals if only liberals lived there!
Anyways, as of yesterday, all 50 states have added their own petitions for secession from the Union...and liberals have added their own petitions...asking the president to deport everyone who has signed a state secession petition...don't worry libs, those folks probably got themselves added to a watchlist of some sorts judging from the way this administration's DHS chief has deemed who all the "potential terrorists" are and, a president who has signed into law HIS own right to kill them on American soil.
The problem with secession is that it's no longer states with defined borders fighting each other but, ideals and individuals who are scattered all over the place.
Over the last few years, America has become Balkanized almost completely.
This time it's not Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks and Slovenes, it's right VS left, freemen VS statist, constitutionalists VS communist and, productive VS the lecherous.
Judging from whats been written on many sites, people have gotten close to the tipping point where the government's intrusions into their lives is beginning to sway too deeply into their personal space where it's unwelcome and unwanted.
People are also beginning to tire of the scale being "thumbed" in favor of leaches who insist on getting something for nothing on the backs of those who are constantly being asked to sacrifice a little more...while the leaches always continue to get more.
People are sick that a country that has always rewarded merit for hard work now shuns merit and hard work in favor of rewarding slackers with a lower middle class lifestyle that others not only have to work for but, pay for.
The slacking classes get more free goodies and, the working get a breakable promise not to tax them even more to pay for the freebies they aren't entitled to.
Those were just some of the reasons people were giving for wanting to opt out of the mess that has been created by our so-called "leaders".
As for me, I don't believe that secession is the way to go in solving the problem.
I think that a thorough scouring of the government is better suited to solve things.
Get rid of every sleazebag political careerist who has ever allowed unconstitutional crap to go past them under the guise of bipartisanship...which is just another word that means both sides of the isle are screwing the citizen in unison as opposed to doing it separately.
It's tragic seeing people driven to the point of being so frustrated that the idea of pissing away the union via secession seems easier that just fighting and forcing the leadership to respect the reason the country was founded in the first place...tyrannical government.
Then again, the entire platform of Obama has been a divide and conquer strategy all along.
Right vs left, gay vs straight, illegals vs citizens, women vs men, black vs white, working vs leaches, kids vs adults, rich vs poor, old vs young, red vs blue and, "red" vs freedom.
Ever since the asshole has been in office, he's needed a "villain of the week"...corporations, insurance companies, fuel companies, coal, doctors, electric companies, private property, workers who actually work, the tea partiers and, anyone else who isn't drinking his batch of kool-aide unquestioned.
I don't like the idea of sucession but, it's damned easy to understand why some do.
7 comments:
I agree with you on some things, but on one important fact you're flat-out wrong. You can't put all the blame on the President. BOTH sides are at fault. And it seems the within each side, it's the fringe at the end of each side that's causing the flak. For example, Senator McCain was holding a press conference accusing the President of withholding information while AT THE VERY SAME TIME missing the classified briefing being held that he was supposed to attend. He was more intent on making the administration look bad then learning the facts.
For instance, I just read your next post on Hostess. I not only agree with you, but I have examples to prove what you said.
Sometimes you even remind me of Israel. They broke the truce with Hamas, then whined they had to protect themselves. You did notice that the Palestinians are the ones, not the Israelis, who are getting their ass whooped. And Israel forbids any foreign journalists from going into Gaza. How are we (i.e. YOU and ME) supposed to judge who is right and who is wrong? And who do we discuss it if we are deprived of the true facts?
But whenever I disagree with you, you start calling me names or refuse to discuss the subject at hand or accuse me of not discussing the subject at hand.
Alph,
How many national security briefings has the president missed over the last 4 years?
MOST of them!
Also keep in mind that McLame isn't the president. HIM missing important meetings and the man in charge of the country blatantly skipping them is two different things altogether.
If McLame isn't doing HIS job, he should be replaced...just like the president who isn't doing HIS job.
As far as Israel goes, they didn't start launching rockets against their own cities as an excuse to kill arabs.
Those in Gaza who turn a blind eye to rockets being fired from their neighborhoods and then play the victim card when the Israelis use counterbattery fire ( radar detecting where the missiles came from ) and returning fire.
If I were your neighbor and was taking potshots at your kids playing in the yard...how sorry for ME should our other neighbors feel when YOU begin shooting back?
I've fired 1600 rounds at Alph's house this week...and he turned around and leveled MY house in return!
Alph is a criminal!
Now, regardless of how others feel about you or, I...common sense would tell them that I did something stupid and, paid dearly for it.
How long would YOU stand for ME shooting at YOUR house before you decided to do something about it?
I couldn't expect that even the most pacifistic of people would put up with it for long...and I'd be wrong as hell for bawling about it when you did finally respond in kind.
Alph is correct about the blame game. It is both sides causing the problems. However Alph, will you be willing to admit to ant future appalling act committed by our President? This is my prediction. These secessionists are only going to accomplish one thing. They are going to be the reason that a Democrat is elected President in 2016. And Obama will let it carry on. Why? Because it worked four years ago, and it will work this time. The Birther movement started, and almost immediately, craziness ensued. And what did the President do? He let it happen. Why? Because it would only benefit his political gain, as will this. He could have handed over all documents he was asked about, but he didn't. Because he knew that just a little rope, and the GOP would be hung. The Administration will have to answer to this. Six states already have the required 25,000 signatures. But I wouldn't expect much of an answer, because the Democratic Party stands to only GAIN from a new Birther movement. The President can speak about it in his weekly address. He could inform America that we must not be divided. He could remind Americans that some secessionist ideas are unconstitutional. And the other ideas not written about in the Constitution, have been ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS in a few cases. But he won't. It is my opinion that the President will hand out just enough rope, and let this idea hang the GOP for 2016, and if this indeed does happen, it would not be a very Presidential act.
I have an entirely different opinion of this secessionist movement Sepp. I find it one of the most UnAmerican things someone could do. It's hard to say that, because there are quite a few bloggers that I like and have the utmost respect for, who have fallen into this way of thinking. But it's wrong. You don't change anything by walking away from it. You have to change it from within.
"It's tragic seeing people driven to the point of being so frustrated that the idea of pissing away the union via secession seems easier that just fighting and forcing the leadership to respect the reason the country was founded in the first place...tyrannical government."
Very well said
It would be excellent financial news for those of us left behind if Obama were to grant a number of the rebel states their wish to withdraw from the United States and create their own NEW government
Red states receive, on average, far more from the federal government in expenditures than they pay in taxes. The balance is the opposite in blue states. The secession petitions, therefore, given the opportunity to create what would be, in a fiscal sense, a far more perfect union.
Among those states with large numbers of petitioners asking out: Louisiana (more than 28,000 signatures at midday Tuesday), which gets about $1.45 in federal largess for every $1 it pays in taxes; Alabama (more than 20,000 signatures), which takes $1.71 for every $1 it puts in; South Carolina (26,000), which takes $1.38 for its dollar; and Missouri (22,000), which takes $1.29 for its dollar.
Since the effort gained attention this week, copycats in all but a few states have joined the petition drive. To be fair, White House officials could refuse the secession petitions of states Obama won, such as New York (which gets only 79 cents on its tax dollar), Michigan (85 cents) and Colorado (79 cents).
What would be left is a Confederacy of Takers, including relatively poor states such as Alaska, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Mississippi.
But once the handout states left the union (and took with them a proportionate share of the federal debt), the rest of the country could enjoy lower taxes and the high level of government service typical of the Northeast, the Great Lakes and the West Coast.
And bottom line, the number of citizens(?) signing the petitions make up what percent of all citizens? One could venture a guess that it's less than 1%.
But don't you find it interesting that they're all like "patriots" until the election doesn't turn out the way they want? It reminds me of the people receiving medicare compaining about the APA,
Gotta disagree with you, Johnny, on secession being UnAmerican. I think it is uniquely American. And the idea that any of it is unConstitutional is ridiculous. It was against the law for us to declare independence from England, according to English law. If it is according to Federal law, we have found the feds wanting, and mistaken.
As for Alph's "poor states", funny, but they provide a whole lot of this nation's electricity.
Alph,
The only "NEW" government we need is one that respects the laws that grant it's powers.
I agree that most of the seccession banter has sour grapes involved...
However,
Quite a few folks put out some damned fine arguements pertaining to national debt and spending, rogue government officials and, a few other worthy issues.
For MY 2 cents, I don't believe we should split the country up, we should be CLEANING it up starting in D.C.
I have no intention whatsoever to leave my farm for secession. I'm here for the duration and would much rather be left alone to succeed or, fail on my own without meddling from right or, lefty governments.
I wouldn't have it any other way T, you know that. The idea of secession not being Constitutional is not ridiculous. According to Article IV, Section 3:
"New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress." Therefore, not only do secessionists need there State's legislation to give consent, they also need Congressional approval.
Now let's say the secessionist do not receive approval, and they want to proceed anyway. This is where it gets tricky. You are correct, that action will not be found in the Constitution, but the Supreme Court has consistently interpreted the Constitution to have created a union that is in their words, "indestructible"
My opinion of secession being unAmerican is just that, an opinion. But is this what our forefathers meant for us? To just quit? Pack up and start anew whenever something doesn't go our way? According to some books I've read, Our Forefather's biggest issue was the placement of a centralized government. They felt that the States could not be properly governed or protected from 4000 miles away, and I agree. I think Sepp was right when he said, "I don't believe we should split the country up, we should be CLEANING it up starting in D.C."
In my opinion, that is the truly American way to go about this. We have a centralized Government whose duty is to protect and serve our Union of States. And it is right here on the shores of America. It is up to us as American's to change what we do not like. Leaving it to start over, is just wrong. I believe the Forefather's would have agreed.
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